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Matthew
I am strongly thinking of attending a Unitarian Univeralist Church some time. It will probably be in San Francisco while I am going to graduate school. I like the progressive approach to spirituality that they have. It seems more of a "do-it-yourself" kind of religion although for the most part, I have never had much need for such a thing. While I find religion extremely fascinating, I don't have any religiosity personally. It can be said that I lack a religious bone in my body, except for something of a bare, Einsteinian type of "religiosity" as an admiration for the orderly cosmos around us and the feeling of being humbled by the vastness of it all. I know that PoconoPragmatist is a U.U. so I want to her ask- what is it like in these churches?

Matthew
PoconoPragmatist
QUOTE (Matthew @ Mar 18 2009, 03:42 PM) *
I am strongly thinking of attending a Unitarian Univeralist Church some time. It will probably be in San Francisco while I am going to graduate school. I like the progressive approach to spirituality that they have. It seems more of a "do-it-yourself" kind of religion although for the most part, I have never had much need for such a thing. While I find religion extremely fascinating, I don't have any religiosity personally. It can be said that I lack a religious bone in my body, except for something of a bare, Einsteinian type of "religiosity" as an admiration for the orderly cosmos around us and the feeling of being humbled by the vastness of it all. I know that PoconoPragmatist is a U.U. so I want to her ask- what is it like in these churches?

Matthew


I can tell you it is a different experience for each individual. The thing is...there are some aspects to our services that have no meaning for me, that may mean the world to you, and vice versa. Most of our members get more out of what happens after the services, with the work outside of the church, the covenant groups, the social gatherings, the after-service coffee hour, where we chat about anything under the sun, and often get quite philosophical in our discussions.
We do not have any sort of a central creed, one is not required to believe anything at all to be a Unitarian Universalist...the beautiful thing here is that everyone brings their own unique gifts and talents. I, personally, am more comfortable in our current Fellowship...a smaller church, rather than a larger church with more members, as there is more opportunity for me to do the sorts of things in the church that I find personally fulfilling.

There is an aspect of "do-it-yourselfism" in our church, ...the way I like to describe it is...kind of like a buffet line of religion and philosophy...all of it is presented...you take that which works for you in your life...and leave that which does not. Each of us may make different choices, but all are respected, and no one is sneered at for choosing an item others did not, or leaving behind something that someone else did not.

In my church, for example, we are a small congregation, perhaps 50-70 members. As such, we have only a 1/2 time minister, and so, guest speakers come in on off sundays when our Minister is not with us...and other times, various members of the congregation themselves present. I have done one such service myself, which I will share, in it's entirety, for those interested, below. I am also planning another one, as a sort of sequel to the first...but it will be done with another member of our church, and on the subject of "Jesusianism"...a concept which I practiced and believed before I had an official name for it. I touch briefly upon it in the first presentation. The title of my first presentation is, with all apologies and respect to R.E.M., called "Losing My Religion" and it is about - and encourages the listener - to lose their religion...as religion often stands in the way of true spirituality.

In answer to your question, I merely advise you to experience UU'ism for yourself...there is no way I can explain it to you, because, for every person, the experience is different. I find it transcending, personally, and I very much enjoy our services and our Fellowship. However, some churches are different from others, and, if the first one you go to does not work for you...I recommend trying going there again, two or thee times...as the service and the message change you may find that it just was not a week in which you really "connected." Or you might try a different UU church...perhaps the church itself was one with which you did not "connect." but it is something that should be experienced by the individual. I can assure you that, no matter your beliefs, your age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religious or philiosophical, or even political beliefs...you will be welcomed. Of course...one should always, in turn, respect those differences in others, if they wish to continue being welcomed, but, this is not usually a problem among true UU's.
QUOTE
Losing My Religion
By
PoconoPragmatist


As a way of introduction, I believe a good starting place would be to define “religion.” The word “religion” comes from the Latin, “religio” which, literally means “to tie or bind.” Religion is an organized set of beliefs…a creed that is blindly followed without question, and that does not welcome anything other than blind acceptance and following of that orthodox creed. It does not welcome individual thought or expression, it does not welcome change, it does not welcome individual experience, thought, or expression. It also does not welcome close scrutiny.

Religion is wedded to an orthodoxy, and anything outside that orthodoxy is rejected. It does not respond well to challenges to its absolute authority, each individual religion believing that it…and it alone, holds all the answers. In short, religion would tell us that “one size fits all.” As a woman, I know the lie of one size fits all. Ironically, for a word whose roots mean “To tie or bind” I can think of no institution that has served to more thoroughly divide.

Most of us are here, as Unitarian Universalists, because the religion formula was, in some way or another, and in different degrees, more or less unacceptable to us. We refuse to be boxed in, and limited in our thoughts or personal experience. We are not afraid to look outside the boundaries. Many of us were not always this way. Many of us continued going to the church or synagogue we had always gone to, feeling nothing, and afraid to show it. We went through the motions of following our birth religions, because we feared what friends, family, neighbors...would think if we chose a different path. So we went along with the charade, and, in keeping our religion…many of us lost our faith.

I was just such a person, having been born into the Roman Catholic Church. By the age of fourteen, I had lost my faith. The reason I lost my faith was simply because I observed the disparity between the words, and the actions, of my church, of my fellow church members, of everything and everyone around me. I realized then that most of them, whether they knew it or not, were playing the same game I was. They went through the motions, but felt nothing, experienced nothing.

The difference between faith and religion became clear to me when, finally, I embarked on my own spiritual journey, seeking my path. This path has not a destination, and the path is not even entirely built yet. However, I realized that what I sought was not religion…was not a set of orthodox creeds and beliefs…what I sought was faith. The difference between religion and faith is a simple one, really. Religion is found between the ears. Faith is found between your upper ribs. Religion is a set of beliefs defined for you by someone else. Faith is something you define for yourself.

The Unitarian Universalist Association has, as most of us know, adopted a set of Seven Principles and Six Living Traditions, meant as a guide for our own individual spiritual journeys. Even if you have not attended a Unitarian Universalist Church for very long, or if it is your first time, you can familiarize yourself with these Principles and Traditions...they are printed on the back of your order of service.
This, as those of us steeped in UU tradition know, is as close to a collective creed as we come!

Of course, for many of us, some of the Principles are more important than others, and the same for the Living Traditions. These are, as I have said, not hard and fast rules or creed, or dogma...they are merely a guide for us in our own individual spiritual journeys.

Many of us, myself included, take some of these Principles and Traditions more seriously than others...some we even treat by rote. “The free and responsible search for truth and meaning” is one that, for many years, did not hold much significance for me. Events later in my life caused me to more closely examine this Principle, and to begin my own search for truth and meaning.


The first of those events occurred about two years after my father’s death, when my mother became a born-again Christian. At first, I despaired of learning this, for I had been making great strides in her eventual acceptance of my transgender status. I feared all the progress I'd made towards her eventual acceptance would be undone by "well-meaning" Christians who would convince her that what I was doing was "wrong," "immoral," or just plain "against God."

It did not turn out as I had feared. Rather, my mother and I became much closer, and our relationship, as well as her new-found faith, helped her to overcome her grief over the loss of my father, and our ever-closening relationship actually caused my mother to move even more towards acceptance of me as her daughter. She seemed happier than she had at any time in her life. This intrigued me enough that recently I began to take more seriously the "free and responsible search for truth and meaning."

To that end, I began with two parallel discussion threads on an Internet bulletin board. One was addressed specifically to agnostics and atheists, and the other was originally addressed to Christians, but I later changed it to "believers" because some people got upset with me for not including THEIR faith in my thread.

As anyone with Internet bulletin board/chat room experience knows - these threads can become quite rancorous, full of what we computer geeks call "flame wars." It seems so much easier to insult people when you are not staring them right in the face! Then, too, my threads were on a very volatile subject, and many people have a very large emotional investment in their own faith. So, in order to keep the discussion civil, I posted some rules for the discussion threads. These rules were 1- No Scripture-quoting. 2- No proselytizing. 3- No flaming or personal attacks. 4- Original thoughts only.

I made it clear with my initial posting to start the threads that I was not interested in WHAT people believed...only WHY they believed as they did. At first, I despaired of getting the type of discussion I was really looking for. No sooner than I had started the thread, I got a response from one I assume was a Christian: "Give it up, kid, I checked, your name is NOT written in the Book of the Lamb, no point wasting your time."

This bald assertion struck me with the physical force of a slap upside the head! Here I was, making an honest attempt to undertake a free and responsible search for truth and meaning...and to be rebuked for this...I didn't know what to think. What occurred to me, on reading that was...does this person have any idea what is required of him in his self-proclaimed faith? Christians, I believe, are charged to "spread the good news." Well, how is the above quote in any way spreading good news? In fact, as I thought more about it, it occurred to me that this was one of the major problems I have had with Christianity!

It may, or may not...have been that person's intent to convert me. Whatever his intent, it seemed to me decidedly non-Christian to post something like that...after all, it served to further alienate me from the possibility of God. In that respect, it was precisely the opposite of what the Bible said a Christian ought to be doing. And I wondered how a self-proclaimed Christian could do such a thing? Did he not understand what was expected of him in his self-proclaimed faith? And it occurred to me that this person actually had no faith. He had religion. And my question was so threatening to him, that all he could do was lash out.

I managed, after a time, to get a civil discussion going on these threads, by constantly gently reminding posters who'd stepped over the lines. What I eventually found were a few common themes running through the threads. On the thread for "believers," no one was able to provide "proof" of God's existence, in the classical sense of empirical scientific evidence. What they did provide was a series of testimonials, and, though I may never know them, I am grateful to those who shared.

On the other hand, some merely spoke of being afraid to NOT believe, and being then condemned to hell and damnation for eternity for not believing. Many of the believers spoke of losing the faith and then coming back to it, many admitted that it was during the hard times, the times of trial and tribulation, that they had lost their faith.

One of the more interesting replies on the Believers thread was actually a Bible extract. “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, of promises not yet kept.” The one who replied in this manner continued on: “While this is an extract from the Bible, it has a much broader application for me – it defines optimism and idealism and hope as well…that people will treat each other well. That the sun will come up tomorrow, that peace is possible.”

While this did not really answer my questions, it does provide for a good lead-in to some of the replies I got on the Agnostic/Atheist thread.

In the Agnostic/Atheist thread, two common themes seemed to dominate. One common theme was the purely analytical, those seeking some sort of empirical scientific evidence. The other common theme was people who had once been believers, and began to question their faith...or otherwise felt alienated from their faith.

Having said that, you may now understand why I made such an issue of the posting stating that my name was not listed in the book of the lamb! It served to further alienate me! It seems to me that most that attempt to convert others are REALLY BAD at it...they generally succeed only in further alienating those they would convert, and I feel that it is largely a problem of approach.

Instead of coming with a message of peace, joy, and hope...they either condemn people who do not believe...expecting that this will somehow make them believe...or threaten them with eternal damnation if they fail to convert. It seems to me that both of those common approaches would only serve to further alienate people. If you come to someone with a message as comforting as a crown of thorns, how likely are they to listen to you?

My measure of a person has always been their ACTIONS...not their WORDS. It seems to me it is easy for anyone to SAY they are (insert your faith here.) But do you walk what you talk? If not, you have a credibility problem in my eyes. This is entirely justifiable, even in terms of the Bible...for does it not say, "By their fruits, ye shall know them?"

While most of the Agnostics were merely seeking some sort of scientific evidence of the existence of God, the Atheists, on the other hand, almost uniformly had, and related, very bad personal experiences with religion. Many of them pointed out “flaws” in the “so obviously man-made religions.” Most spoke bitterly of the notion that God had been created just to threaten others to “be good” or face eternal damnation. Many also claimed God was just a means to exercise “mind control” over the masses.

Most of the Atheists related times in which God had let them down. I resonated best to these stories, since many of them reflected my own personal experiences in one way or another...as I have had, myself, my share of very bitter experience with religion. Perhaps the most moving, for me, was one particular Atheist who railed against God: Where is God when the innocents die? Where is God when the innocents suffer? Where is God when the evil prosper? Where was God when my mother was dying? Where was God when I performed CPR on her for 22 minutes, only to have her die anyway? Where was God when the paramedics arrived and could do nothing?

It is with all this in mind that I ask the following questions - and I'll admit they are tough questions!

Can one accept a God yet reject any and all forms of organized religion?

Can one accept a God yet reject all the dogma?

Can one accept a God yet remain humble, not feeling or seeing himself superior to non-believers?

Can one accept a God, yet be uncertain as to the name, nature, or desires of said God?

Can one accept a God while not claiming to have a monopoly on "the Truth," and also remain flexible enough to change your assumptions about the nature of, and desires of that god as you experience more?

Can one accept a God and still ask these kinds of hard questions?

Is it possible God (assuming he exists) does not see asking these questions as a threat, but as an honest attempt to seek and know the nature of God? Are we allowed to ask these questions? Are we ENCOURAGED to ask these questions?

It seems to me that a truly benign God would not be threatened by this, for if he were truly benign, it seems that the asking of those questions would eventually lead one right back to the God in question.

I could not accept a God that would not welcome or allow such questions to be asked. Not saying that I will accept GOD, or a God or any god...I remain open to the possibility...but the thing that keeps getting in my way is what I witness in men.

What I witness, time and again, is the self-righteousness, the greed, the lies, the hypocrisy, the dogma, and the air of superiority that seems to go hand in hand with all religions.

Until rather recently, I’d best categorize my own “faith” as Agnostic. As I said previously, one of the problems I have had with religion, over the years, is the mentality of most religions, what I call the “one size fits all” mentality espoused and practiced by most modern religions. Yet, I cannot claim to be an Atheist. I’m not a strong person, spiritually.

I find faith very hard to hold onto, especially during times of trial and tribulation. I now refer to myself as a Jesusian. I adopted this label, courtesy of our own Paul Allen. He and I got to talking about our spiritual beliefs, and I had mentioned to him I referred to myself as a Unitarian Christian…in order to differentiate myself from others who call themselves Christian, and who so often fail to act in a Christian manner.

Paul told me that he believed much the same as I did, that, if more people followed the teachings and the life example of Jesus, in their dealings with one another, this would be a much better world. This is not to say that I believe in the Divinity of Jesus. I think this is a problem on which many religions get hung up. They worry so much about the next life that they forget to have any concern for this life, and this earth we now live on. Uuism’s seventh principle calls for the respect for the interdependent web of life, of which we are a part. Personally, I do not believe in the miracles, nor, necessarily, in the divinity of Jesus…or even the existence of God. But I do believe that if more of us tried to live the life Jesus did, and tried to follow his teachings, this would be a much nicer world. And so, I now refer to myself as a Jesusian.

I feel that poster that used to hang in Fox Mulder’s office in the popular TV series, The X-Files, can sum up my spiritual experience: I WANT TO BELIEVE. I truly do want to believe. However, the question of just where to put your faith is one that I find to be of such profound importance, it is difficult to know where to place one’s trust…especially if you have had your trust violated time and again by religion.

In conclusion, I find that I could only accept a God who not only allowed...but also ENCOURAGED us to ask these sorts of questions. After all, why ELSE would God have created us with a high degree of intelligence, and given us free will, if not to engage in a free and responsible search for truth & meaning?

--------
I’d like to end the closing circle with a blessing, one which I first heard in a Unitarian Church, and thus, you may be familiar with, but I think it says a lot in just a few words…”For those who came here today seeking God, may your God go with you…for those who came here seeking life…may life return your affection….and for those who came here seeking a better way, may that way be found – and the courage to take it…step by step by step.”
Wolfman Mike
I know some people who are Unitarian Universalists. They're good folk, and I think theirs is one of the more progressive religious organizations around.
PoconoPragmatist
QUOTE (Optimus Mike @ Mar 20 2009, 10:49 AM) *
I know some people who are Unitarian Universalists. They're good folk, and I think theirs is one of the more progressive religious organizations around.

Generally, yes, we tend towards being progressive, and politically liberal...but that is not always the case...I happen to go to church with a circuit court judge, with whom I have become good friends...and who is...and runs for office as...a Republican!

I, one time, about a year and a half ago...sat in a jury panel in this man's courtroom. I knew the judge, even back then from church, though we were not as familiar then as we are now. Of course, I disclosed that relationship in the voire dire process, but was accepted for the jury pool anyway.

Honestly, my friendship with this judge would never impact my ability to make an impartial judgement based on the facts presented in a case, and I so stated. As it is, I'm more inclined to find "innocent" over "guilty" anyway, because, if I'm going to have a part in convicting a man, and taking away his freedom, then I'm going to be damned sure I feel okay about doing it...and that means I need to be sure we got the right guy...and I need to be about 600 percent sure the guy did it.

The judge and I still actually even talk about the case I served on jury for him for, once in a while. I was the lone holdout among 12...11 wanted to string the guy up 5 seconds after walking into the Jury Room...but me, well, I had some unanswered questions, and, as such was not ready to convict...which, of course, pissed off my fellow jurors, who didn't give a shit about justice...they just wanted to go home. Bastards. the whole experience convinced me that we need to have professional jurors...people whose JOB it is to sit in juries...to be versed on the law...and people who will make impartial decisions...not some slob who is in a hurry to get home.

Eventually, I, too, voted to convict...only after my reasonable doubts had all been answered to my own satisfaction.

The only sort of case I'd ever have to recuse myself from is a death-penalty case. I would have to admit there is no way I could ever convict a man to death, not even if I was 1000 percent sure he was guilty, because, there's that chance that he wasn't...and if I ever discovered I'd sent an innocent man to death for a crime he did not commit, I would not be able to live with myself.

Wow...we really did get far off-topic here, eh??

Well...anyway...that gives you an idea of what can happen in a UU church...you start talking about one thing...and something else crosses it...and the next thing you know you're in a deep, philosophical discussion about a whole different topic than what you started on!! LOL!!

In all seriousness, though...UU'ism is something you just have to experience for yourself, it is not something easily explainable. And, as every person's experience of it is unique to that individual, anyway, I'm not sure it would help much if I could explain my own experience!
Wolfman Mike
I attended a UU workshop a few years ago, tagging along with the very friends I told you about. It was an eye-opening experience, to say the least. I've been mulling over whether to find a church nearby and start attending services. I have some ideas to share, and I am always open to new ones. As for your apparent astonishment at the revelation that your friend the judge is a Republican, bear in mind that the Progressive Movement was originally begun in that political party. When Theodore Roosevelt ran for president on a third party ticket in 1912 after losing the GOP nomination to William Howard Taft, the incumbent, the former president took much of the progressives within the party with him and many more registered as Democrats — thus causing a drastic and more or less permanent ideological shift to the right in the Republican Party.
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